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Post by vjaska on Sept 9, 2020 1:37:19 GMT
In the excitement over hydrogen buses what is overlooked is the process from the start and not at the end where only water comes from the exhaust. Wright are pushing them because the owner also owns the company that makes the bits and pieces that makes a hydrogen buses work Making and processing the hydrogen is not exactly the answer that everyone thinks it is and the normal electric buses may be more efficient. Make your own minds up and search the internet for hydrogen versus electric - there are some unbiased reports out there. I'm not a fan of either but electric has it's own issues as well - it's not completely a green fuel as pollution is still involved in the process and then you have the issue of the batteries themselves once they completely die.
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Post by cc2005 on Sept 9, 2020 9:51:33 GMT
Reading Buses seem to use quite a lot of CNG buses, and have been ordering them for years - they seem to have made them work and are still ordering more - It must be pretty cost efficient and reliable (in terms of mileage and maintenance) - wonder why few operators around the country have opted for CNG as an alternative to electrics/hybrids/hydrogen?
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Post by wirewiper on Sept 9, 2020 10:12:20 GMT
Reading Buses seem to use quite a lot of CNG buses, and have been ordering them for years - they seem to have made them work and are still ordering more - It must be pretty cost efficient and reliable (in terms of mileage and maintenance) - wonder why few operators around the country have opted for CNG as an alternative to electrics/hybrids/hydrogen? There's an extra cost for CNG-powered buses and for installing the refuelling facilities. In some cases Reading Buses has offset this with grants from the Green Bus Fund. The other big adopters of CNG vehicles are First West of England (Bristol) and Nottingham City Transport. Plymouth CityBus has about a dozen that were transferred from Anglia Bus, and Bristol Community Transport (part of HCT Group) operates several on metrobus route M1 on which it is subcontracted by First. Although CNG powered vehicles have far fewer harmful emissions than a standard diesel bus, they are not zero-emission so none will be ordered for TfL routes.
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Post by ADH45258 on Sept 9, 2020 15:05:35 GMT
When are the new hydrogen ones coming for 7? Also it will be like what happened with optare MD since metroline ordered a batch now everyone is getting MD's Also what happened to the RV1 Hydrogens since the 444 went It hasn't been confirmed when the 7 will get its buses, other than it will come in 2021, Metroline will keep their hydrogens, none will go back like the Optare demonstrator. I think all of the ex-RV1 (seems weird to say that) hydrogens have been withdrawn, with the Van-Hools going to Germany somehow (in my opinion, it would have been best to send them up to Aberdeen, as they have the same Van-Hools but tri-axle). How will the Van-Hool Hydrogens work in Germany, as the doors will be on the wrong side?
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Post by LJ17THF on Sept 9, 2020 15:21:07 GMT
It hasn't been confirmed when the 7 will get its buses, other than it will come in 2021, Metroline will keep their hydrogens, none will go back like the Optare demonstrator. I think all of the ex-RV1 (seems weird to say that) hydrogens have been withdrawn, with the Van-Hools going to Germany somehow (in my opinion, it would have been best to send them up to Aberdeen, as they have the same Van-Hools but tri-axle). How will the Van-Hool Hydrogens work in Germany, as the doors will be on the wrong side? I think they will refit them on the right side, probably with only one door, where the wheelchair space was.
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Post by snowman on Sept 17, 2020 6:28:08 GMT
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Post by busman on Sept 17, 2020 13:28:07 GMT
Great to see Wrightbus moving forward with innovation. They missed the boat on fully electric vehicles, but hopefully they can do better in the future with a more relevant product line. From a purely aesthetic point of view, I’d like to see some curves on their hydrogens more akin to their Eclipse and NRM inspired ranges, rather than the ugly geometric design of the frog face bodywork.
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Post by snowman on Nov 9, 2020 21:36:39 GMT
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Post by redbus on Nov 9, 2020 22:06:28 GMT
In the excitement over hydrogen buses what is overlooked is the process from the start and not at the end where only water comes from the exhaust. Wright are pushing them because the owner also owns the company that makes the bits and pieces that makes a hydrogen buses work Making and processing the hydrogen is not exactly the answer that everyone thinks it is and the normal electric buses may be more efficient. Make your own minds up and search the internet for hydrogen versus electric - there are some unbiased reports out there. I'm not a fan of either but electric has it's own issues as well - it's not completely a green fuel as pollution is still involved in the process and then you have the issue of the batteries themselves once they completely die. You are both right, one has to look at the whole process of manufacture of the bus and also the batteries. The electricity to charge the battery also needs to be green. Likewise with hydrogen the generation of hydrogen and its transport to the bus needs to be green. If as reported above the hydrogen is being generated by wind and if it's transported to the bus garage is via say a hydrogen powered truck, then you are very long way down to true zero emissions.
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Post by Eastlondoner62 on Nov 10, 2020 0:52:15 GMT
I'm not a fan of either but electric has it's own issues as well - it's not completely a green fuel as pollution is still involved in the process and then you have the issue of the batteries themselves once they completely die. You are both right, one has to look at the whole process of manufacture of the bus and also the batteries. The electricity to charge the battery also needs to be green. Likewise with hydrogen the generation of hydrogen and its transport to the bus needs to be green. If as reported above the hydrogen is being generated by wind and if it's transported to the bus garage is via say a hydrogen powered truck, then you are very long way down to true zero emissions. I think we are far closer to electric being fully green than Hydrogen. But the storage of electrify is far less efficient, leading to the range issues that will end up limiting some routes. With electrics the negative impact on the environment comes at the end when the batteries have reached the end of their life, disposing them in a green way is possible but also really expensive, too expensive to consider worthwhile in many cases. However only mass recycling can actually drive down costs. Likewise with Hydrogen the issues of cost are present near the start, they're a far bigger initial financial investment fitting in Hydrogen tanks and the likes and the clean generation of it. It also cannot be transported easily like electricity can. I think the near future at least is electric now, for me having such an explosive fuel which bangs at a spark is not something I want to see rolling out en mass. The Hindenburg many years ago went down in flames and the Hydrogen used is still the same gas. I don't want to see it in a big city running everywhere when it's especially susceptible to terror attacks. While Lithium batteries still catch fire, they don't explode on the presence of a spark making them far safer.
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Post by ServerKing on Nov 10, 2020 3:05:31 GMT
You are both right, one has to look at the whole process of manufacture of the bus and also the batteries. The electricity to charge the battery also needs to be green. Likewise with hydrogen the generation of hydrogen and its transport to the bus needs to be green. If as reported above the hydrogen is being generated by wind and if it's transported to the bus garage is via say a hydrogen powered truck, then you are very long way down to true zero emissions. I think we are far closer to electric being fully green than Hydrogen. But the storage of electrify is far less efficient, leading to the range issues that will end up limiting some routes. With electrics the negative impact on the environment comes at the end when the batteries have reached the end of their life, disposing them in a green way is possible but also really expensive, too expensive to consider worthwhile in many cases. However only mass recycling can actually drive down costs. Likewise with Hydrogen the issues of cost are present near the start, they're a far bigger initial financial investment fitting in Hydrogen tanks and the likes and the clean generation of it. It also cannot be transported easily like electricity can. I think the near future at least is electric now, for me having such an explosive fuel which bangs at a spark is not something I want to see rolling out en mass. The Hindenburg many years ago went down in flames and the Hydrogen used is still the same gas. I don't want to see it in a big city running everywhere when it's especially susceptible to terror attacks. While Lithium batteries still catch fire, they don't explode on the presence of a spark making them far safer. I even think emerging technologies are quite expensive, so am curious where broke TfL would find the money for it? It will be interesting to see how the hydrogen buses for the 7 fare, I suspect it will be the standsrd Streetdeck design. Even for conventional diesel they should retrofit their existing Streetdecks with the OM936 rather than thrashing the bus with a smaller underpowered engine which isn't so green I have wondered how all these electric batteries will be disposed of as well.
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Post by snowman on Dec 2, 2020 18:54:48 GMT
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Post by LJ17THF on Dec 2, 2020 19:02:16 GMT
When did Wright make an electric Streetdeck? They could have got some orders in London if they advertised it better.
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Post by SILENCED on Dec 2, 2020 19:07:24 GMT
When did Wright make an electric Streetdeck? They could have got some orders in London if they advertised it better. The StreetAir was built on the Streetdeck chassis and has always said to be available in single or double deck form .... just very few single decks have been built
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Post by cl54 on Jan 27, 2021 19:11:04 GMT
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