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Post by YY13VKP on Apr 15, 2024 21:37:49 GMT
I would have said the 455 until it was withdrawn last month
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Post by bk10mfe on Apr 15, 2024 21:40:29 GMT
I always thought there were too many buses on the Whipps Cross-Walthamstow Corridor. What does the 357 actually do that other existing routes don’t already do? The 414 could also go with a frequency increase on the 14. The 414 can fill up at the first stop at Marble Arch at times! Yes, yes, it surprised me too. It isn't as useless as usually portrayed. These passengers also don't board the 137 suggesting they are going beyond Knightsbridge likely to South Ken and beyond (they arrive decently full at South Ken with most continuing onwards plus more passengers boarding there), would be link broken unnecessarily imo to force a change at Knightsbridge. The 74 would maintain the 414’s links as far as South Kensington & also to Putney Bridge too. I imagine the 74 could cope with displaced passengers from the 414, as well as the 14.
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Post by mb171 on Apr 15, 2024 22:05:53 GMT
124 is a route that annoys me. Im really not a fan of the 12-plates, they seem quite plain and boring and have that annoying shrilling sound. The metrocities look okay-ish but i've personally had negative experiences on this route.
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Post by greenboy on Apr 15, 2024 22:09:05 GMT
I always thought there were too many buses on the Whipps Cross-Walthamstow Corridor. What does the 357 actually do that other existing routes don’t already do? The 414 could also go with a frequency increase on the 14. The 414 can fill up at the first stop at Marble Arch at times! Yes, yes, it surprised me too. It isn't as useless as usually portrayed. These passengers also don't board the 137 suggesting they are going beyond Knightsbridge likely to South Ken and beyond (they arrive decently full at South Ken with most continuing onwards plus more passengers boarding there), would be link broken unnecessarily imo to force a change at Knightsbridge. The only time it's likely to fill up is if there's disruption to other routes. If the 414 didn't operate one day for whatever reason I wonder how many people would even notice? They would just use the 14 or 74 instead, how many people wait specifically for a 414?
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Post by greenboy on Apr 15, 2024 22:16:40 GMT
124 is a route that annoys me. Im really not a fan of the 12-plates, they seem quite plain and boring and have that annoying shrilling sound. The metrocities look okay-ish but i've personally had negative experiences on this route. Irritating that it's restricted to small buses.
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Post by capitalomnibus on Apr 15, 2024 22:35:08 GMT
Perhaps the 257 could be extended to Chingford Mount and then the 357 can be withdrawn. Can't believe we are still having these discussions. The 357 provides unique round-the-corner and hospital links and also supports other routes, especially the 97 and 215 between Walthamstow Central and Chingford Mount. It isn't going away. In any case, there's a frequency imbalance. The 257 runs twice as frequently as the 357. No it does not provide unique links. If the 48 could be abolished there is no need for routes like the 357 whatsoever. The route is easily do-able via two buses on all of it. Route 97 and then 257 (or even better W15/W19 so you can go into the hospital grounds itself) Or W16 and then W15/W19 The 357 is not used that much for people going into the hospital and the fact that I have seen loads of times people come off the 357 and go onto a W15/W19 says it all. It is nothing much a scratching route.
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Post by capitalomnibus on Apr 15, 2024 22:37:04 GMT
You must be a psychic was literally about to post these , but even with a slight frequency increase I think 14 would be ok as during the day anyway a lot of 414s carrying not a lot of custom wouldn't say fresh air but not as much . The old 97A seems to be timed to duplicate other routes so a 97 turns up then a 357 turns up 🤷🏻♂️ but tfl must think it worthy as more useful routes (48) have gone . I also think the D8 seems to carry fresh air nowadays and doesn't justify DD buses and if anything should be rerouted via Devons Road and the 108 return during the daytime to the A12 would speed things up again and make the D8 have a purpose . The 357 does have quite a long section between Chingford Mount and Walthamstow which has no other links to Whipps Cross for the Hospital however carries just over 1m a year which it could be questioned are they using the unique links or have simply boarded it as it arrived for a 212 or various others routes. The 357 was proposed for withdrawal but the consultation didn't go ahead so not sure if there were any mitigating changes proposed to other routes. Either they would have gone for broke and just an outright withdrawal with the hopper fare and routes 97/212/215/444/W16 all given as alternatives to use and change elsewhere in Walthamstow or the 215 could have been extended from Walthamstow to Whipps Cross which would have covered most the 357 links between Whipps Cross and Chingford Mount. The 357 was only saved because of people like Iain Duncan Smith, the route should have been scrapped and gone to Davy Jones locker
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Post by vjaska on Apr 15, 2024 23:42:41 GMT
The East Dulwich end of the 42 isn't very busy, the route could perhaps be increased to x10mins north of Camberwell with only alternate buses to East Dulwich? I agree that the 45 is pretty useless in its current form, various alternatives have been suggested on here but what's wrong with the P5 and P13? Old favourites the 357 and 414 have also had subsequent mentions, I think the best suggestion for replacing the 357 has been to extend the 20 from Walthamstow to Chingford Mount. You could reroute the 484 between Denmark Hill & Goose Green via the 42’s LOR & have it perform a double run to serve East Dulwich Sainsbury’s. The 42 could then be cut back to Camberwell or even extend from Camberwell to Clapham Park via the 45’s LOR, with the 45 withdrawn. I don’t agree with extending the 20 to Chingford Mount. If the W16 simply served Whipps Cross Hospital, the 357 wouldn’t be needed anymore, the W16 would provide links from the Hospital to Chingford area but via a much more direct routing. You could swap the W16 & W19 between Leytonstone & Leyton, including having the W19 perform the small hail & ride section that the W16 does near Bakers Arms. I agree with you regarding the 20 - the 20 has had issues in the past few years with reliability with reports from locals at the Loughton & Debden end having very long waits for buses so adding another section on top makes no sense to me. Where I disagree is removing the 357 but that's separate Anyone using the word useless to describe any bus route in London, regardless of whether people think a route should exist or not, really doesn't know what the word means - it's really a baffling way to describe any route.
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Post by abellion on Apr 16, 2024 5:26:47 GMT
The 414 can fill up at the first stop at Marble Arch at times! Yes, yes, it surprised me too. It isn't as useless as usually portrayed. These passengers also don't board the 137 suggesting they are going beyond Knightsbridge likely to South Ken and beyond (they arrive decently full at South Ken with most continuing onwards plus more passengers boarding there), would be link broken unnecessarily imo to force a change at Knightsbridge. The 74 would maintain the 414’s links as far as South Kensington & also to Putney Bridge too. I imagine the 74 could cope with displaced passengers from the 414, as well as the 14. Let’s not forget that the 74 is terribly slow to and from Putney taking a completely indirect route and getting stuck in Earl’s Court traffic.
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Post by Busboy105 on Apr 16, 2024 6:17:28 GMT
I would have said the 455 until it was withdrawn last month The 455 was a very useful route. It was maybe a tad bit too long
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Post by bk10mfe on Apr 16, 2024 6:46:34 GMT
The 414 can fill up at the first stop at Marble Arch at times! Yes, yes, it surprised me too. It isn't as useless as usually portrayed. These passengers also don't board the 137 suggesting they are going beyond Knightsbridge likely to South Ken and beyond (they arrive decently full at South Ken with most continuing onwards plus more passengers boarding there), would be link broken unnecessarily imo to force a change at Knightsbridge. The only time it's likely to fill up is if there's disruption to other routes. If the 414 didn't operate one day for whatever reason I wonder how many people would even notice? They would just use the 14 or 74 instead, how many people wait specifically for a 414? On days when RATP have been on strike & the 414 is not running the 14/74 don’t really have their capacity changed significantly, though both routes can get quite full leaving central London, but sometimes they aren’t full.
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Post by bk10mfe on Apr 16, 2024 6:48:03 GMT
The 74 would maintain the 414’s links as far as South Kensington & also to Putney Bridge too. I imagine the 74 could cope with displaced passengers from the 414, as well as the 14. Let’s not forget that the 74 is terribly slow to and from Putney taking a completely indirect route and getting stuck in Earl’s Court traffic. Having used the 74 & compared it to the 14/414, it’s only about 5-10 mins longer getting to Putney Bridge. The 14/414 also have to contend with traffic if there is a Chelsea game going on.
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Post by evergreenadam on Apr 16, 2024 7:51:54 GMT
I always thought there were too many buses on the Whipps Cross-Walthamstow Corridor. What does the 357 actually do that other existing routes don’t already do? The 414 could also go with a frequency increase on the 14. The 414 can fill up at the first stop at Marble Arch at times! Yes, yes, it surprised me too. It isn't as useless as usually portrayed. These passengers also don't board the 137 suggesting they are going beyond Knightsbridge likely to South Ken and beyond (they arrive decently full at South Ken with most continuing onwards plus more passengers boarding there), would be link broken unnecessarily imo to force a change at Knightsbridge. That’s interesting, I think the 414 would be more useful and provide more unique links if it continued beyond Marble Arch to either Paddington, Portman Square or Oxford Circus. Getting to Paddington Station or St Mary’s Hospital from anywhere south of Hyde Park by bus is difficult at present and both South Kensington and Paddington Praed Street lack step free access so the Circle Line isn’t always an alternative. The 23 was the wrong route to try to provide a link between Paddington and the Knightsbridge/South Kensington areas, so not surprised that it wasn’t a success. The cutback of the 137 to Marble Arch was bad politics, take away the buses from Oxford Street and you take away the customers that actually shop there, it should be extended to Portman Square or Oxford Circus.
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Post by bk10mfe on Apr 16, 2024 8:34:52 GMT
The 414 can fill up at the first stop at Marble Arch at times! Yes, yes, it surprised me too. It isn't as useless as usually portrayed. These passengers also don't board the 137 suggesting they are going beyond Knightsbridge likely to South Ken and beyond (they arrive decently full at South Ken with most continuing onwards plus more passengers boarding there), would be link broken unnecessarily imo to force a change at Knightsbridge. That’s interesting, I think the 414 would be more useful and provide more unique links if it continued beyond Marble Arch to either Paddington, Portman Square or Oxford Circus. Getting to Paddington Station or St Mary’s Hospital from anywhere south of Hyde Park by bus is difficult at present and both South Kensington and Paddington Praed Street lack step free access so the Circle Line isn’t always an alternative. The 23 was the wrong route to try to provide a link between Paddington and the Knightsbridge/South Kensington areas, so not surprised that it wasn’t a success. The cutback of the 137 to Marble Arch was bad politics, take away the buses from Oxford Street and you take away the customers that actually shop there, it should be extended to Portman Square or Oxford Circus. The 137 was withdrawn at the same time when the 22 was rerouted to Oxford Circus, technically Knightsbridge isn’t linked to Oxford Circus due to the closure of Sloane St northbound. I think the 113 should return to Oxford Circus it’s redundant to have that at Marble Arch. At least the 94 wasn’t cut back as initially proposed.
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Post by bk10mfe on Apr 16, 2024 8:41:53 GMT
Can't believe we are still having these discussions. The 357 provides unique round-the-corner and hospital links and also supports other routes, especially the 97 and 215 between Walthamstow Central and Chingford Mount. It isn't going away. In any case, there's a frequency imbalance. The 257 runs twice as frequently as the 357. No it does not provide unique links. If the 48 could be abolished there is no need for routes like the 357 whatsoever. The route is easily do-able via two buses on all of it. Route 97 and then 257 (or even better W15/W19 so you can go into the hospital grounds itself) Or W16 and then W15/W19 The 357 is not used that much for people going into the hospital and the fact that I have seen loads of times people come off the 357 and go onto a W15/W19 says it all. It is nothing much a scratching route. Could you swap the 97 & 444 routings between Chingford Mount & Chingford so that the 97 replicates the 357 between Leyton & Larkshall Road. The 212 would cover Chingford Mount to Walthamstow.
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