Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Feb 21, 2019 18:22:12 GMT
After taking a look at the official TfL bus stop naming policy document, obtained via a FOI request, I am still confused as to why some bus stops have their names changed and how the names are decided. Here are some of the changes in my local area which I have noticed, there are probably many more.
Daws Lane -> University Of London Observatory (113) I didn't even know there was an observatory here until the bus stop was renamed. Medical Research Institute -> Burtonhole Lane (240) Premier House -> Manor Park Crescent (32, 142, 204, 251, 288, 292, 303) Hampstead Way -> North End Road / Golders Hill Park (210, 268) but only towards Golders Green?
Another thing I can't get my head around is how TfL decide on locations to upgrade to the new style grey/black style shelter (with the bus stop name displayed in white text on a red oval-shaped background). I recall a few years back seeing perfectly good bus shelters along the 221 route in Mill Hill being sporadically replaced with brand new ones, whilst other bus stops along the same road were not. I wonder what criteria needs to be met in order for a bus shelter to be replaced, if it's not random. Additionally, why are some light grey, some dark grey and some black; is there a specific reason for this?
|
|
|
Post by Green Kitten on Feb 21, 2019 19:28:04 GMT
Bus stop names change all the time. On the 298 the quirkily named ‘Cat Hill Campus’ changed to the much drier name of ‘Green Road’ - I believe the campus itself hasn’t been operational for years though. Also, the mildly humourous misspelled ‘Osidge Jimi School’ changed to ‘Southgate ASDA’ - the school is just known as Osidge Primary School now it seems and it perhaps was a good time to make both bus stops have the same name. It may well be due to places closing or opening of a particular place (a bus stop on Kensington High Street was renamed to ‘The Design Museum’ when said museum opened), or changing of name of a place. I wonder if some places pay to have their name on a bus stop to drive people in!
As for bus shelters I’ve noticed some councils prefer to have the new style bus shelters in a certain colour to match better with existing street furniture. Haringey’s shelters are mainly light grey coloured, while Hammersmith & Fulham’s are mainly black. (All of the earliest new style shelters were coloured light grey though). Kensington have done away with all that and are introducing their own design of bus shelters for their bus stops.
As for bus shelters, I’m not sure how it’s decided when they’re replaced. - maybe it’s just when they get to a certain age, graffitied/scratchtittied or not, they get replaced.
|
|
|
Post by ian on Feb 21, 2019 19:56:33 GMT
After taking a look at the official TfL bus stop naming policy document, obtained via a FOI request, I am still confused as to why some bus stops have their names changed and how the names are decided. Here are some of the changes in my local area which I have noticed, there are probably many more. Daws Lane -> University Of London Observatory (113) I didn't even know there was an observatory here until the bus stop was renamed.Medical Research Institute -> Burtonhole Lane (240) Premier House -> Manor Park Crescent (32, 142, 204, 251, 288, 292, 303) Hampstead Way -> North End Road / Golders Hill Park (210, 268) but only towards Golders Green?Another thing I can't get my head around is how TfL decide on locations to upgrade to the new style grey/black style shelter (with the bus stop name displayed in white text on a red oval-shaped background). I recall a few years back seeing perfectly good bus shelters along the 221 route in Mill Hill being sporadically replaced with brand new ones, whilst other bus stops along the same road were not. I wonder what criteria needs to be met in order for a bus shelter to be replaced, if it's not random. Additionally, why are some light grey, some dark grey and some black; is there a specific reason for this? Well most of those are pretty straightforward to explain I would have thought? MRI changed because MRI closed down and moved to St Pancras. Premier House was closed and turned into flats. Daws Lane became UoLO to match the stop names northbound. Agree about shelters. What i find odd is when decent ones get upgraded rather than installing some where there currently aren't any at all, which would surely have much greater net benefit.
|
|
|
Post by WSD3 on Feb 21, 2019 20:30:14 GMT
Hope Street to Hope Street/Plantation Wharf Pier (44,295,C3,N44) both SB and NB. Garret Lane/ Southside Shopping Center (28,44, 220,270,N28,N44) both NB and SB. These bus stop changes are with in the wandsworth aera.
|
|
|
Post by LBOTG on May 3, 2019 15:37:12 GMT
Heading Southbound on Northfield Avenue, both the bus stops 'Hessel Road' and 'Sherwood Close' have disappeared, with a new shelter turning up in the middle. It should technically be called Occupation Road, as the street displayed on the flag is actually in South Ealing... Can't see this time-saving move being too popular with local residents - in the morning peak the former stop especially is very well used for quick trips down to Northfields, you'll have more than 20 people waiting sometimes. With the new change I suspect most will resort to walking. The former arrangement was clever as it allowed the unassuming shortcut near Bowmans Close to be utilised, as well as allowing people to travel both ways from Hessel Road depending on which bus comes first, especially useful if going to Acton for example (E3 vs E2/207). Interested to see how long it'll be until countdown is updated to reflect the change. Attachment Deleted
|
|
|
Post by YY13VKP on May 3, 2019 15:42:55 GMT
Stoneyfield Road on the 404 and 466 changed to "Oasis Academy Byron" back in 2015. There was no need for it IMO
|
|
|
Post by twobellstogo on May 3, 2019 17:49:48 GMT
As long as TfL don’t change the name of the ‘NAAFI Messing Store’ bus stop in Woolwich, they can do whatever they like with bus stop names 😂
|
|
|
Post by southlondonbus on May 3, 2019 18:47:26 GMT
Alder Street to Altab Ali Park on the 25/205/254.
|
|
|
Post by ak121 on May 3, 2019 22:29:09 GMT
As long as TfL don’t change the name of the ‘NAAFI Messing Store’ bus stop in Woolwich, they can do whatever they like with bus stop names 😂 And Ha Ha Road as well
|
|
|
Post by Pilot on May 3, 2019 22:42:34 GMT
Perhaps a bit off topic, but speaking of shelters, what does decide that a specific shelter gets digital bus arrival times display? I've seen this the display in literally but stops middle of nowhere and then nothing in fairly popular and busy places. I can somewhat understand it can make sense to have one in middle of nowhere so you don't have to feel unsafe for long time if the bus is not due in 10 minutes or something but still...I think I'd like to know real reason why it's not in most popular stops at least.
|
|
|
Post by snoggle on May 3, 2019 23:03:18 GMT
Perhaps a bit off topic, but speaking of shelters, what does decide that a specific shelter gets digital bus arrival times display? I've seen this the display in literally but stops middle of nowhere and then nothing in fairly popular and busy places. I can somewhat understand it can make sense to have one in middle of nowhere so you don't have to feel unsafe for long time if the bus is not due in 10 minutes or something but still...I think I'd like to know real reason why it's not in most popular stops at least. The TfL methodology on passenger benefits would typically dictate that stops that are busy / reasonably busy with a mix of services (high and low frequency) would deliver the greatest benefit. Some stops with very high numbers of buses do get displays even though the wait time in normal circumstances will be a matter of a few minutes (if that) for the average passenger. I suspect interchanges are another criteria - some stops at junctions get displays and also beside tube / rail stations. The final factor will be the one you've mentioned - some displays at points where passengers may otherwise feel vulnerable and need the reassurance of knowing when buses are due. Note this is my guess as to how things were done - I may be wrong! The huge problem is that TfL have no room for manoeuvre with stop displays. No one wants to lose an existing display, TfL have no money / refuse to add displays and passengers / politicians are constantly demanding more displays. It is a recipe for disappointment and inaction. Any mayoral candidate with a clue would make more displays on the network a manifesto commitment. TfL would hate it as they don't want more infrastructure to maintain nor to vary the existing I-Bus contract. However I-Bus is going to be replaced and if TfL have designed things properly then an expansion of stop displays should be made as easy as possible. If they've partnered with their bus stop / advertising contractor effectively then you should be able to get screen displays fitted for nothing - the only catch being they'd need to displays adverts for part of the time. Isn't that what's been trialled in Kingston? Of course TfL will cite mobile phones and apps as the answer to more people accessing the info but that ignores those who cannot afford / do not want to run a smartphone. Getting text notifications costs money so even the "poor" option is discriminatory. That tends to fail the politicians test. As I've said before I really think an expansion of stop displays would do TfL's reputation no end of good in some areas and would be relatively cheap (in the broader scheme of things).
|
|
|
Post by Mokujin on May 3, 2019 23:25:34 GMT
“Grove Street” ——> “Abinger Grove” back in 2009 for 47/188/199/N1/N47 (now N199)
“Rose (pronounced as ‘Ruse’ by Emma) Bruford College” ——> “Macmillan Students Village” around the same time as the above for 188/199/N1/N199.
“Creek Road” ——> “Deptford Church Street / Creek Road” around 2017 or so for 47.
“Jerrard Street” ——> “Thurston Road / Jerrard Street” [NB] back in 2016 or 2017 for 47/225 when the bus stop was relocated round the corner.
“Lewisham Station” ——> “Lewisham Station / Loampit Vale” before a new bus stop was made for the revamped station one way and it’s old name being given to that.
Rotherhithe Police Station was also closed more than half a decade ago but the stops’ names have still yet to be updated.
|
|
|
Post by george on May 3, 2019 23:25:46 GMT
Perhaps a bit off topic, but speaking of shelters, what does decide that a specific shelter gets digital bus arrival times display? I've seen this the display in literally but stops middle of nowhere and then nothing in fairly popular and busy places. I can somewhat understand it can make sense to have one in middle of nowhere so you don't have to feel unsafe for long time if the bus is not due in 10 minutes or something but still...I think I'd like to know real reason why it's not in most popular stops at least. The TfL methodology on passenger benefits would typically dictate that stops that are busy / reasonably busy with a mix of services (high and low frequency) would deliver the greatest benefit. Some stops with very high numbers of buses do get displays even though the wait time in normal circumstances will be a matter of a few minutes (if that) for the average passenger. I suspect interchanges are another criteria - some stops at junctions get displays and also beside tube / rail stations. The final factor will be the one you've mentioned - some displays at points where passengers may otherwise feel vulnerable and need the reassurance of knowing when buses are due. Note this is my guess as to how things were done - I may be wrong! The huge problem is that TfL have no room for manoeuvre with stop displays. No one wants to lose an existing display, TfL have no money / refuse to add displays and passengers / politicians are constantly demanding more displays. It is a recipe for disappointment and inaction. Any mayoral candidate with a clue would make more displays on the network a manifesto commitment. TfL would hate it as they don't want more infrastructure to maintain nor to vary the existing I-Bus contract. However I-Bus is going to be replaced and if TfL have designed things properly then an expansion of stop displays should be made as easy as possible. If they've partnered with their bus stop / advertising contractor effectively then you should be able to get screen displays fitted for nothing - the only catch being they'd need to displays adverts for part of the time. Isn't that what's been trialled in Kingston? Of course TfL will cite mobile phones and apps as the answer to more people accessing the info but that ignores those who cannot afford / do not want to run a smartphone. Getting text notifications costs money so even the "poor" option is discriminatory. That tends to fail the politicians test. As I've said before I really think an expansion of stop displays would do TfL's reputation no end of good in some areas and would be relatively cheap (in the broader scheme of things). Happy to be corrected but I think all the stops in Kingston are owned by Kingston council. They have screens that show bus times, local map and national rail enquiries.
|
|
|
Post by vjaska on May 3, 2019 23:34:26 GMT
Perhaps a bit off topic, but speaking of shelters, what does decide that a specific shelter gets digital bus arrival times display? I've seen this the display in literally but stops middle of nowhere and then nothing in fairly popular and busy places. I can somewhat understand it can make sense to have one in middle of nowhere so you don't have to feel unsafe for long time if the bus is not due in 10 minutes or something but still...I think I'd like to know real reason why it's not in most popular stops at least. The TfL methodology on passenger benefits would typically dictate that stops that are busy / reasonably busy with a mix of services (high and low frequency) would deliver the greatest benefit. Some stops with very high numbers of buses do get displays even though the wait time in normal circumstances will be a matter of a few minutes (if that) for the average passenger. I suspect interchanges are another criteria - some stops at junctions get displays and also beside tube / rail stations. The final factor will be the one you've mentioned - some displays at points where passengers may otherwise feel vulnerable and need the reassurance of knowing when buses are due. Note this is my guess as to how things were done - I may be wrong! The huge problem is that TfL have no room for manoeuvre with stop displays. No one wants to lose an existing display, TfL have no money / refuse to add displays and passengers / politicians are constantly demanding more displays. It is a recipe for disappointment and inaction. Any mayoral candidate with a clue would make more displays on the network a manifesto commitment. TfL would hate it as they don't want more infrastructure to maintain nor to vary the existing I-Bus contract. However I-Bus is going to be replaced and if TfL have designed things properly then an expansion of stop displays should be made as easy as possible. If they've partnered with their bus stop / advertising contractor effectively then you should be able to get screen displays fitted for nothing - the only catch being they'd need to displays adverts for part of the time. Isn't that what's been trialled in Kingston? Of course TfL will cite mobile phones and apps as the answer to more people accessing the info but that ignores those who cannot afford / do not want to run a smartphone. Getting text notifications costs money so even the "poor" option is discriminatory. That tends to fail the politicians test. As I've said before I really think an expansion of stop displays would do TfL's reputation no end of good in some areas and would be relatively cheap (in the broader scheme of things). It would also be great if TfL could re-fit a screen when they replace a shelter that had one previously & not pick and choose which ones get re-fitted - both Brixton Water Lane & Rush Common southbound stops got new shelters yet Rush Commons stop kept their screen whilst my local stop, Brixton Water Lane, lost it's screen. Either remove both screens or re-fit both screens, not pick one and leave the other one out.
|
|
|
Post by LBOTG on May 4, 2019 7:44:09 GMT
Heading Southbound on Northfield Avenue, both the bus stops 'Hessel Road' and 'Sherwood Close' have disappeared, with a new shelter turning up in the middle. It should technically be called Occupation Road, as the street displayed on the flag is actually in South Ealing... Can't see this time-saving move being too popular with local residents - in the morning peak the former stop especially is very well used for quick trips down to Northfields, you'll have more than 20 people waiting sometimes. With the new change I suspect most will resort to walking. The former arrangement was clever as it allowed the unassuming shortcut near Bowmans Close to be utilised, as well as allowing people to travel both ways from Hessel Road depending on which bus comes first, especially useful if going to Acton for example (E3 vs E2/207). Interested to see how long it'll be until countdown is updated to reflect the change. Update: LVF confirms the stop name is the incorrect 'Occupation Lane' . Best hope people don't start coming here for Clayponds Hospital...
|
|