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Post by overgroundcommuter on Mar 5, 2023 22:38:48 GMT
Definitely not local but in my view this proposal is not too bad, but bad optics in the sphere of the promised increased investment for outer London services. I assume Clay Tye Road residents won't like this news, is this going to be Maypole Bo-peep esque where they tell passengers to walk down country lanes instead? Clay Tye Road is served by non-TFL route 269 (Brentwood to Grays via Ockendon), so it wouldn't matter too much. Bar those passengers who'll have to rely on a route that could be withdrawn for commercial reasons, as well as higher fares.
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Post by enviroPB on Mar 5, 2023 22:39:27 GMT
Does this have anything to do with the ULEZ 1M miles thing? Because I remember seeing Harold Wood as one of the areas that was being looked at Under this proposal two routes will be withdrawn including the cross-boundary route 347, so no. Looking at the Facebook comments, it seems the Harold Wood Residents' Association are very on board with the 497 extension. Then again I can't blame them, Crossrail is down pretty much every weekend for repairs on the eastern leg.
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Post by busoccultation on Mar 5, 2023 22:58:48 GMT
Could it be possible to make the changes before the 346 tender starts in September? That is what I'm thinking too, now that 346 and 497 will both be under Stagecoach opration by then as it should just be the case of renegotiate the contract prices of those routes with Stagecoach. If the 3 year contract break clause exists on the 347's contract as that will be withdrawn under the proposals then that will be in October 2023. so this change could well happen sooner than some on here are suggesting.
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Post by SILENCED on Mar 5, 2023 23:06:43 GMT
Clay Tye Road is served by non-TFL route 269 (Brentwood to Grays via Ockendon), so it wouldn't matter too much. Bar those passengers who'll have to rely on a route that could be withdrawn for commercial reasons, as well as higher fares. Par for the course outside TfL land
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Post by routew15 on Mar 6, 2023 0:04:41 GMT
I'm not so sure I'd agree - the 346 reminds me of the R9 as a route more commonly found out of London that radiates from a particular point (a station in this case) to serve a particular area in a loop. There are lots of little, popular journeys on this route not just to & from Upminster but midway on route and the big concern would be reliability - personally, I'd leave it as it is. I'd of thought merging the Ockendon end of the 347 onto the 497 would of made more sense personally to give a Ockendon to Harold Wood route. The every 30 minute frequency (or even boost to every 20) may help boost ridership on the 347 section given it's currently a very low frequent service that operates at restricted times and not all week. Speculation on my part but it could be that there is no Essex County Council funding for an extension of the 497 to Ockendon
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Post by ronnie on Mar 6, 2023 0:08:08 GMT
Improvement in outer London bus services
Cough cough cough
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Post by YX10FFN on Mar 6, 2023 1:04:41 GMT
Bar those passengers who'll have to rely on a route that could be withdrawn for commercial reasons, as well as higher fares. Par for the course outside TfL land Clay Tye Road is in the London Borough of Havering, so TFL do on paper have the obligation here, although similar to the 84 if NIBS binned the 269 there's no guarantee TFL would move a muscle
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Post by joefrombow on Mar 6, 2023 5:36:25 GMT
497/346 Changes make sense to be fair provides a new link from Harold Hill to Upminster and retains links whilst using the same or maybe less buses if the 30 minute frequency is used with 20 in peaks maybe aq but getting rid of the 347 which is no doubt a little used route when the Mayor is talking about new links and mileage with the incoming ULEZ extension is a joke it is people from places like Ockendon who will be affected and that Havering border area in North Ockendon if anything have some early journeys and then some return journeys using buses of a existing route .
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Post by VMH2537 on Mar 6, 2023 7:57:07 GMT
497/346 Changes make sense to be fair provides a new link from Harold Hill to Upminster and retains links whilst using the same or maybe less buses if the 30 minute frequency is used with 20 in peaks maybe aq but getting rid of the 347 which is no doubt a little used route when the Mayor is talking about new links and mileage with the incoming ULEZ extension is a joke it is people from places like Ockendon who will be affected and that Havering border area in North Ockendon if anything have some early journeys and then some return journeys using buses of a existing route . I don't see this involving anything higher than a 30 minute frequency sadly. Looking at the proposal, it's combining the resources of the 347, 346 and the 497 together making it cost-neutral. Whilst I agree a more frequent service can attract users for a link, I can't see this happening for a while. For an entire new route link, most cases start running at a low frequency on limit costs. It does give some provision at the same time a service can be upgraded in the near future.
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Post by ADH45258 on Mar 6, 2023 8:51:22 GMT
497/346 Changes make sense to be fair provides a new link from Harold Hill to Upminster and retains links whilst using the same or maybe less buses if the 30 minute frequency is used with 20 in peaks maybe aq but getting rid of the 347 which is no doubt a little used route when the Mayor is talking about new links and mileage with the incoming ULEZ extension is a joke it is people from places like Ockendon who will be affected and that Havering border area in North Ockendon if anything have some early journeys and then some return journeys using buses of a existing route . I don't see this involving anything higher than a 30 minute frequency sadly. Looking at the proposal, it's combining the resources of the 347, 346 and the 497 together making it cost-neutral. Whilst I agree a more frequent service can attract users for a link, I can't see this happening for a while. For an entire new route link, most cases start running at a low frequency on limit costs. It does give some provision at the same time a service can be upgraded in the near future. The issue is that the 346 is currently every 15 minutes, so would be a big downgrade to halve that frequency for current 346 users. Every 20 might be a good compromise?
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Post by southlondonbus on Mar 6, 2023 10:38:40 GMT
497/346 Changes make sense to be fair provides a new link from Harold Hill to Upminster and retains links whilst using the same or maybe less buses if the 30 minute frequency is used with 20 in peaks maybe aq but getting rid of the 347 which is no doubt a little used route when the Mayor is talking about new links and mileage with the incoming ULEZ extension is a joke it is people from places like Ockendon who will be affected and that Havering border area in North Ockendon if anything have some early journeys and then some return journeys using buses of a existing route . I don't see this involving anything higher than a 30 minute frequency sadly. Looking at the proposal, it's combining the resources of the 347, 346 and the 497 together making it cost-neutral. Whilst I agree a more frequent service can attract users for a link, I can't see this happening for a while. For an entire new route link, most cases start running at a low frequency on limit costs. It does give some provision at the same time a service can be upgraded in the near future. No doubt it will be presented as package of improvements for the ULEZ expansion yet is pretty take with one hand and give with the other. The 346 route drops to every 30 mins and the 347 loss to Ockendon, in order to provide new links to Upminster. May be a good trade off I don't know
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Post by VMH2537 on Mar 6, 2023 10:53:32 GMT
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Post by JUNIOR26 on Mar 6, 2023 11:27:14 GMT
It says that, these changes would be introduced in the 2023/2024 financial year, so these changes could happen from 30th September 2023, when the 346 contract commences. Honestly, TFL shouldn't have awarded the 346 contract in the first place if they were planning to withdraw the route.
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Post by passingfordbridgeboy on Mar 6, 2023 11:34:05 GMT
I'm broadly in favour, having used all three routes a number of times. Disappointing though the Upminster Park Estate area will get a 30 minute service, a reduction by half. Would like the 347 to have carried on between Ockendon and Hacton Lane ( The Optimist pub) via Corbets Tey Rd and Gaynes Park Rd.
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Post by WH241 on Mar 6, 2023 11:34:15 GMT
It says that, these changes would be introduced in the 2023/2024 financial year, so these changes could happen from 30th September 2023, when the 346 contract commences. Honestly, TFL shouldn't have awarded the 346 contract in the first place if they were planning to withdraw the route. I thought as much when I suggested this last night. I assume the extra buses needed will be the buses that were going to be used on the 346.
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