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Post by wirewiper on Nov 5, 2023 15:32:58 GMT
I would diverted 123 to Edmonton Green or Enfield Town turnpike lane stand over bused. Having 123 it cause chaos. Turnpike Lane would lose the 232 though so no busier than before. I know the 123 used to run to Enfield Town at one time but that was when it had conductors and far less traffic to contend with.
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Post by MetrolineGA1511 on Nov 5, 2023 16:22:44 GMT
To bad there not cutting the 232 from St Raphael's to Brent Park to this can make the it Double Decker's maybe there no Stand space at Brent Park I wonder whether it would be feasible to amend routes 232 & 316 such that the section of route 232 requiring single-decks switches from route 232 to single-deck route 316?
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Post by redexpress on Nov 5, 2023 21:11:44 GMT
To bad there not cutting the 232 from St Raphael's to Brent Park to this can make the it Double Decker's maybe there no Stand space at Brent Park I wonder whether it would be feasible to amend routes 232 & 316 such that the section of route 232 requiring single-decks switches from route 232 to single-deck route 316? The 316 is more frequent than the 232, so would be more expensive to extend to St Raph's, and probably not worth it. If the 232 really needs DDs (and I'm not sure that it does) it would be better to just sort out the offending trees.
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Post by ADH45258 on Nov 5, 2023 22:41:19 GMT
I wonder whether it would be feasible to amend routes 232 & 316 such that the section of route 232 requiring single-decks switches from route 232 to single-deck route 316? The 316 is more frequent than the 232, so would be more expensive to extend to St Raph's, and probably not worth it. If the 232 really needs DDs (and I'm not sure that it does) it would be better to just sort out the offending trees. Also this would break the link from Dollis Hill Lane to Brent Cross. I think the 232 should be looked at reducing in length - even if stand space is available at Brent Park, from there to Wood Green is still quite a long route, not helped by traffic on the North Circular. An idea I suggested before would be to introduce a new route using SDs between St Raphaels and North Finchley. Then cut both the 112 and 232 back to Brent Cross. The 112 should fit at the bus station since nothing replaced it, and the 232 could terminate at Brent Cross West Station (east entrance). The 232 would then be more reliable and could convert to DDs.
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Post by JUNIOR26 on Nov 6, 2023 12:01:05 GMT
To bad there not cutting the 232 from St Raphael's to Brent Park to this can make the it Double Decker's maybe there no Stand space at Brent Park For somebody that drove the route for many years until it went to Go-Ahead, this is what I'm going to say. It's unfortunate that the route cannot be decked due to St Raphael's Estate being deemed unsafe for double deckers but it should still serve the Estate and I always keep hearing (not from you) that the route going to St Raphael's is pointless/useless and I'm here to say that is totally WRONG because if it was that pointless/useless the route wouldn't have gone there in the first place, it's been terminating there ever since its introduction in 1994. The route has been and is still to this day being very well used in the Estate. What I would say is that the Estate has needed more frequent buses and that has happened with the 232 and removing it from the Estate is not ideal at all plus I would not replace it with another route as the route itself doesn't need replacing.
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Post by JUNIOR26 on Nov 6, 2023 12:06:01 GMT
The 316 is more frequent than the 232, so would be more expensive to extend to St Raph's, and probably not worth it. If the 232 really needs DDs (and I'm not sure that it does) it would be better to just sort out the offending trees. Also this would break the link from Dollis Hill Lane to Brent Cross. I think the 232 should be looked at reducing in length - even if stand space is available at Brent Park, from there to Wood Green is still quite a long route, not helped by traffic on the North Circular. An idea I suggested before would be to introduce a new route using SDs between St Raphaels and North Finchley. Then cut both the 112 and 232 back to Brent Cross. The 112 should fit at the bus station since nothing replaced it, and the 232 could terminate at Brent Cross West Station (east entrance). The 232 would then be more reliable and could convert to DDs. Disagree. You'd break too many links. I honestly don't understand the urge to remove the 232 from St Raphael's just to make the route double deck. The route is well used and it being high frequency has certainly helped. The route doesn't need to be replaced with another route. The 112 doesn't need to be cut back to Brent Cross either.
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Post by JUNIOR26 on Nov 6, 2023 12:21:47 GMT
Haven't yet given my thoughts on these proposals but these seem to be a good set of proposals.
I like the 91 extension to Wood Green proposal but I would retain the N91, continuing to go through Wood Green High Road. I'm not entirely convinced Haringey Heartlands would need a night service.
I did predict a few years ago that the 123 would at some point would be proposed for a cutback to Wood Green, but it wouldn't surprise me if this goes ahead but I'd expect there to be opposition due to the fact that it would no longer serve Wood Green Shopping City. So this is a 50/50 for me.
232 being removed away from Wood Green High Road probably does makes sense as you'd have the 121, 141 and 329, so wouldn't be surprised if this proposal goes ahead, but as a former driver of the route I will certainly miss it being a St Raphael's - Turnpike Lane route (if it goes ahead) simply because of past experience/memories.
So overall, I think all will go ahead but with the N91 being retained in its current route and the 123 I'm not entirely sure.
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Post by enviroPB on Nov 6, 2023 12:26:40 GMT
Due to the new layout, buses on the 91 technically can't terminate at Aldwych. If they were to, the last stop would be Holborn which would then pose the question of why the bus is being sent along Kingsway to turn around. I have been on a 91 terminated at Aldwych, the (GAL) driver took us round the eastern arm to terminate outside Bush House. Back to the scheme: I support the proposal, the 91 extension might even support local trips on the 41 and W3 from Crouch End - Wood Green? The 91 will definitely relieve the W3 as it will share a common stop with it in Wood Green. I'm not sure of how significant the relief in congestion will be though, considering most of the punters in the Hornsey area use the W3 as a shuttle to Finsbury Park Station.
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Post by COBO on Nov 6, 2023 13:00:52 GMT
To bad there not cutting the 232 from St Raphael's to Brent Park to this can make the it Double Decker's maybe there no Stand space at Brent Park I wonder whether it would be feasible to amend routes 232 & 316 such that the section of route 232 requiring single-decks switches from route 232 to single-deck route 316? But the 316 also requires double deckers so that’s a bad idea.
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Post by COBO on Nov 6, 2023 13:11:28 GMT
To bad there not cutting the 232 from St Raphael's to Brent Park to this can make the it Double Decker's maybe there no Stand space at Brent Park For somebody that drove the route for many years until it went to Go-Ahead, this is what I'm going to say. It's unfortunate that the route cannot be decked due to St Raphael's Estate being deemed unsafe for double deckers but it should still serve the Estate and I always keep hearing (not from you) that the route going to St Raphael's is pointless/useless and I'm here to say that is totally WRONG because if it was that pointless/useless the route wouldn't have gone there in the first place, it's been terminating there ever since its introduction in 1994. The route has been and is still to this day being very well used in the Estate. What I would say is that the Estate has needed more frequent buses and that has happened with the 232 and removing it from the Estate is not ideal at all plus I would not replace it with another route as the route itself doesn't need replacing. I wonder what if something could be done to make the estate safe for double deckers? I mean the 232 was originally had double deckers from when it began and double deckers went to the Estate even the odd double decker like TPs and TALs would appear on the route during the early years of being single deck during the early 2000s. I wonder if what stopped allowing double deckers going on it can be corrected.
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Post by ADH45258 on Nov 6, 2023 13:15:38 GMT
Also this would break the link from Dollis Hill Lane to Brent Cross. I think the 232 should be looked at reducing in length - even if stand space is available at Brent Park, from there to Wood Green is still quite a long route, not helped by traffic on the North Circular. An idea I suggested before would be to introduce a new route using SDs between St Raphaels and North Finchley. Then cut both the 112 and 232 back to Brent Cross. The 112 should fit at the bus station since nothing replaced it, and the 232 could terminate at Brent Cross West Station (east entrance). The 232 would then be more reliable and could convert to DDs. Disagree. You'd break too many links. I honestly don't understand the urge to remove the 232 from St Raphael's just to make the route double deck. The route is well used and it being high frequency has certainly helped. The route doesn't need to be replaced with another route. The 112 doesn't need to be cut back to Brent Cross either. As you say the 232 is well used, and so would really benefit from being converted to DDs - particularly when it's only the shory section at St Raphaels where they can't fit. At the estate, a link to somewhere like Wembley might be more useful than the 232. Especially when the 112 is just a short walk away at the North Circular. Or at the north end of the estate, the stop by Ikea is very close, which would be served by the 232 if cut back. An ideal solution would probably be some minor road layout changes, that would allow Pitfield Way to be used as a through route - currently this is only possible eastbound. Then divert the 112 this way (which is restricted to SDs in Ealing anyway).
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Post by vjaska on Nov 6, 2023 14:21:53 GMT
Disagree. You'd break too many links. I honestly don't understand the urge to remove the 232 from St Raphael's just to make the route double deck. The route is well used and it being high frequency has certainly helped. The route doesn't need to be replaced with another route. The 112 doesn't need to be cut back to Brent Cross either. As you say the 232 is well used, and so would really benefit from being converted to DDs - particularly when it's only the shory section at St Raphaels where they can't fit. At the estate, a link to somewhere like Wembley might be more useful than the 232. Especially when the 112 is just a short walk away at the North Circular. Or at the north end of the estate, the stop by Ikea is very close, which would be served by the 232 if cut back. An ideal solution would probably be some minor road layout changes, that would allow Pitfield Way to be used as a through route - currently this is only possible eastbound. Then divert the 112 this way (which is restricted to SDs in Ealing anyway). Not being funny but JUNIOR26 probably has a better idea of the area than me, you and most others so why not just accept what he is saying? As you already said, buses to Wembley are merely a short walk away and I don't think it would be easy to make changes at the North Circular end of Pitfield Way presumably because you would be removing a few parking spots in the process which residents wouldn't be happy about but more so because you would be spending money on something that probably isn't even deemed an issue in the first place.
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Post by greenboy on Nov 6, 2023 14:54:22 GMT
Disagree. You'd break too many links. I honestly don't understand the urge to remove the 232 from St Raphael's just to make the route double deck. The route is well used and it being high frequency has certainly helped. The route doesn't need to be replaced with another route. The 112 doesn't need to be cut back to Brent Cross either. As you say the 232 is well used, and so would really benefit from being converted to DDs - particularly when it's only the shory section at St Raphaels where they can't fit. At the estate, a link to somewhere like Wembley might be more useful than the 232. Especially when the 112 is just a short walk away at the North Circular. Or at the north end of the estate, the stop by Ikea is very close, which would be served by the 232 if cut back. An ideal solution would probably be some minor road layout changes, that would allow Pitfield Way to be used as a through route - currently this is only possible eastbound. Then divert the 112 this way (which is restricted to SDs in Ealing anyway). I suppose the ideal thing would be to reroute the 112 that way although I don't think that would be possible westbound without some large scale changes. Is it only the trees near the stand that are the problem?
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Post by londonbuses on Nov 6, 2023 15:01:24 GMT
Surely the simplest solution would be to leave the 232 alone and divert the 112 away from Madeley Road back onto its old routing and deck it instead.
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Post by WH241 on Nov 6, 2023 20:15:50 GMT
I wonder whether it would be feasible to amend routes 232 & 316 such that the section of route 232 requiring single-decks switches from route 232 to single-deck route 316? But the 316 also requires double deckers so that’s a bad idea. Does it? TfL thinks otherwise apart from Carnival extras.
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