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Post by snoggle on Jul 21, 2014 15:24:33 GMT
Sutton and Merton Councils are consulting on the proposed extension of Tramlink to Sutton. I am sure some group members would be interested and may wish to respond. There are various route options under consideration. Consultation website
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Post by Steve80 on Jul 22, 2014 2:59:50 GMT
If this goes ahead I hope they would do through journeys between Croydon and Sutton via Morden. I wonder what would happen to the 157 and 164 routes?
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Post by M1104 on Jul 23, 2014 13:04:39 GMT
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Post by M1104 on Mar 15, 2016 23:16:40 GMT
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Post by snoggle on Mar 16, 2016 13:35:07 GMT
Outer London election bribe. The scheme is not fully funded despite £100m from TfL and £50m from the local councils. The scheme scope is being reviewed and more work on sources of funding is needed. If they botch the scope we will end up with single track sections that then have to be "fixed" years later at greater cost and disruption. Much as I would like the scheme to go ahead I fear we are back to the same old dud promises about "extending trams to Crystal Palace" - 8 years on from Boris's first election promise nothing has been done.
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Post by RandomBusesGirl on Sept 28, 2017 15:30:18 GMT
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Post by snoggle on Sept 29, 2017 0:31:13 GMT
I really don't think it is you know. Beware newspaper articles conjured out of nowhere with a passing relationship with a few facts. There is no indication at all that City Hall and Sutton Council have got any agreement over the scale of housing redevelopment that could fill the funding gap. £70m buys you very little given there is no design, no plans, no basis on which to seek parliamentary powers to build the route. All of that would has still to be done AFAIK. So what if the scheme is in the *draft* Transport Strategy. Lots of things are in strategies and they never happen. It could be removed from the final published strategy with the press of a "delete" button. Don't get me wrong - I'd love to see Tramlink extended and Sutton deserves its slice of the funding pie *but* the housing issue was very very vexed the last I heard. Sutton felt they were under tremendous pressure to agree to schemes they didn't want. I also suspect there may be issues about the scale of affordable housing which, if low, would play very badly for the Mayor. The simple fact is that there is nowhere near enough TfL money for this scheme and it will be a very considerable challenge to screw lots of cash out of developers and have an acceptable proportion of genuinely affordable housing in the developments. The financial levers on each of these factors pull in opposing directions.
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Post by lwldriver on Sept 29, 2017 1:17:51 GMT
I really don't think it is you know. Beware newspaper articles conjured out of nowhere with a passing relationship with a few facts. There is no indication at all that City Hall and Sutton Council have got any agreement over the scale of housing redevelopment that could fill the funding gap. £70m buys you very little given there is no design, no plans, no basis on which to seek parliamentary powers to build the route. All of that would has still to be done AFAIK. So what if the scheme is in the *draft* Transport Strategy. Lots of things are in strategies and they never happen. It could be removed from the final published strategy with the press of a "delete" button. Don't get me wrong - I'd love to see Tramlink extended and Sutton deserves its slice of the funding pie *but* the housing issue was very very vexed the last I heard. Sutton felt they were under tremendous pressure to agree to schemes they didn't want. I also suspect there may be issues about the scale of affordable housing which, if low, would play very badly for the Mayor. The simple fact is that there is nowhere near enough TfL money for this scheme and it will be a very considerable challenge to screw lots of cash out of developers and have an acceptable proportion of genuinely affordable housing in the developments. The financial levers on each of these factors pull in opposing directions. Would be good for this to be extended to Bromley.
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Post by snoggle on Sept 29, 2017 11:31:27 GMT
Would be good for this to be extended to Bromley. Bromley Council have specifically ruled out allowing any Tramlink extensions to Bromley. They do not want to surrender one square centimetre of their roads to trams. They also don't want the Bakerloo Line in their borough either. They want the London Overground extended from New Cross to Bromley North and / or a DLR extension because they want easier access to financial services jobs in Canary Wharf. There was a Council Cttee paper on this about 18-24 months ago - made interesting but sad reading. And yes I don't understand their ridiculous attitude either but I'm not the slightest bit surprised by it. I suspect a Tramlink extension into Bromley would do exceptionally well and would be compatible with the largely pedestrianised town centre. Obviously building it is the issue as it would be disruptive on major roads into Bromley but you can't make an omlette without breaking some eggs.
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Post by sid on Sept 29, 2017 13:20:04 GMT
Would be good for this to be extended to Bromley. Bromley Council have specifically ruled out allowing any Tramlink extensions to Bromley. They do not want to surrender one square centimetre of their roads to trams. They also don't want the Bakerloo Line in their borough either. They want the London Overground extended from New Cross to Bromley North and / or a DLR extension because they want easier access to financial services jobs in Canary Wharf. There was a Council Cttee paper on this about 18-24 months ago - made interesting but sad reading. And yes I don't understand their ridiculous attitude either but I'm not the slightest bit surprised by it. I suspect a Tramlink extension into Bromley would do exceptionally well and would be compatible with the largely pedestrianised town centre. Obviously building it is the issue as it would be disruptive on major roads into Bromley but you can't make an omlette without breaking some eggs. It would probably be better extended on street BJ to Shortlands and alongside existing tracks to Bromley South, if there is room for a single track of course?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 29, 2017 14:03:59 GMT
Bromley Council have specifically ruled out allowing any Tramlink extensions to Bromley. They do not want to surrender one square centimetre of their roads to trams. They also don't want the Bakerloo Line in their borough either. They want the London Overground extended from New Cross to Bromley North and / or a DLR extension because they want easier access to financial services jobs in Canary Wharf. There was a Council Cttee paper on this about 18-24 months ago - made interesting but sad reading. And yes I don't understand their ridiculous attitude either but I'm not the slightest bit surprised by it. I suspect a Tramlink extension into Bromley would do exceptionally well and would be compatible with the largely pedestrianised town centre. Obviously building it is the issue as it would be disruptive on major roads into Bromley but you can't make an omlette without breaking some eggs. It would probably be better extended on street BJ to Shortlands and alongside existing tracks to Bromley South, if there is room for a single track of course? Relatively straight forward but would cut through Shortlands Ward which is residence to highly influential people who, I don't think would appreciate a tram trundling past. I might be wrong, as speeding is very high on the agenda, so there is a certain amount of anti car potential. Note though Bromley , unlike other London boroughs, have an aging population and is seemingly getting away with not doing anywhere near the scale of house building its neighbours are. Politically, it's left wing wards in Penge area, are doing very well from increased house prices thanks to the Overground. BL extension mostly welcomed by that end of the borough but opposed the nearer you get to Hayes. In short, the borough is still effectively staunchly Tory, hence not public transport orientated unless you travel in the rush hours to The City or Canary Wharf.
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Post by snoggle on Sept 29, 2017 14:05:03 GMT
It would probably be better extended on street BJ to Shortlands and alongside existing tracks to Bromley South, if there is room for a single track of course? Extending on from Beckenham is the logical thing to do. Don't know the roads well enough to comment. I suspect, though, that Network Rail would not want to surrender any tracks or space at Bromley South. Further, if it were feasible, getting Tramlink to street level and running through the Town Centre and to at least Bromley North and possibly Grove Park by taking over the shuttle NR service would give a genuinely popular and sensible tram corridor. It would distribute people through the Town Centre - good for shops and job access - and likely give a much better frequency of service on the Bromley North branch. The only issue there is whether the stns are in the right place or whether extra stops could be added to pull in more punters from the 126 / 261 corridor. Anyway it's all academic given Bromley Council's stance.
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Post by sid on Sept 29, 2017 14:19:14 GMT
It would probably be better extended on street BJ to Shortlands and alongside existing tracks to Bromley South, if there is room for a single track of course? Relatively straight forward but would cut through Shortlands Ward which is residence to highly influential people who, I don't think would appreciate a tram trundling past. I might be wrong, as speeding is very high on the agenda, so there is a certain amount of anti car potential. Note though Bromley , unlike other London boroughs, have an aging population and is seemingly getting away with not doing anywhere near the scale of house building its neighbours are. Politically, it's left wing wards in Penge area, are doing very well from increased house prices thanks to the Overground. BL extension mostly welcomed by that end of the borough but opposed the nearer you get to Hayes. In short, the borough is still effectively staunchly Tory, hence not public transport orientated unless you travel in the rush hours to The City or Canary Wharf. Yes I'm sure there would be all sorts of opposition whatever the preferred option, I just can't see any other way of extending from Beckenham Junction to Bromley.
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Post by sid on Sept 29, 2017 14:27:16 GMT
It would probably be better extended on street BJ to Shortlands and alongside existing tracks to Bromley South, if there is room for a single track of course? Extending on from Beckenham is the logical thing to do. Don't know the roads well enough to comment. I suspect, though, that Network Rail would not want to surrender any tracks or space at Bromley South. Further, if it were feasible, getting Tramlink to street level and running through the Town Centre and to at least Bromley North and possibly Grove Park by taking over the shuttle NR service would give a genuinely popular and sensible tram corridor. It would distribute people through the Town Centre - good for shops and job access - and likely give a much better frequency of service on the Bromley North branch. The only issue there is whether the stns are in the right place or whether extra stops could be added to pull in more punters from the 126 / 261 corridor. Anyway it's all academic given Bromley Council's stance. It looks to me as though it would be possible to squeeze another single track in between Shortlands and Bromley South and a two bay terminus adjacent to the existing station at Bromley South without NR losing anything. However taking over the under utilised Grove Park to Bromley North line might be the better option with street running down to Bromley South and possibly further south from there?
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Post by vjaska on Sept 29, 2017 14:49:48 GMT
Extending on from Beckenham is the logical thing to do. Don't know the roads well enough to comment. I suspect, though, that Network Rail would not want to surrender any tracks or space at Bromley South. Further, if it were feasible, getting Tramlink to street level and running through the Town Centre and to at least Bromley North and possibly Grove Park by taking over the shuttle NR service would give a genuinely popular and sensible tram corridor. It would distribute people through the Town Centre - good for shops and job access - and likely give a much better frequency of service on the Bromley North branch. The only issue there is whether the stns are in the right place or whether extra stops could be added to pull in more punters from the 126 / 261 corridor. Anyway it's all academic given Bromley Council's stance. It looks to me as though it would be possible to squeeze another single track in between Shortlands and Bromley South and a two bay terminus adjacent to the existing station at Bromley South without NR losing anything. However taking over the under utilised Grove Park to Bromley North line might be the better option with street running down to Bromley South and possibly further south from there? Could you not get the tram line down to railway level at Bromley South by running through where the 126 used to terminate and then follow the railway up to Beckenham Junction? I agree with running it through the pedestrian area up to Market Square and then maybe cut up West Street - the problem would be how to get onto the Bromley North Branch from the road - redesigned station maybe?
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