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Post by ADH45258 on Aug 30, 2023 11:13:56 GMT
Now we know the E1 extension is happening that helps the 65. I think the 117 should actually be every 15 mins at least. In many ways I would have preferred if the E1 were extended to Hounslow via the full length of Ealing Road, so that you could then reroute the 235 to West Middlesex Hospital instead of the 117. I am not sure there will be enough demand to justify the high frequency of the E1 extension between Gillette Corner and Ealing Road but we will see. It is probably being subsided by developer contributions from sites along the Great West Road so has to go that way or it wouldn’t happen at all. The North Brentford Quarter bus service is well used and the frequent temporary service curtailments to Brentford County Court whenever there is a problem with the access gate or private road into the North Brentford Quarter, also known as Great West Quarter, is robustly challenged by local councillors. So any removal of the bus service would be politically unacceptable. The problem is more intractable due to the long gap in southbound bus stops on Ealing Road which means the 65 cannot stop at the entrance to the development on Ealing Road which would have been nice. The issue is that the 235, or any other route that could replace it, serves a busy corridor between Brentford and Hounslow, and ideally needs the extra capacity of DDs. So either DDs need to be permitted within the North Brentford Quarter development, or remove the service here and improve bus stop locations on the main road. My suggestion in a previous restructure idea was to have a new route replacing the 235 from Brentford to Hounslow, then onwards to Heathrow Central via Hounslow West to cover a currently missing link. Then the 235 diverted to West Middlesex Hospital, and the 117 cut back to Hounslow. Regarding a possible Ealing-Hounslow link, how well used in the E8 from the Hounslow area to/from Boston Manor and Hanwell? Could you maybe just swap routeings with the E2 to make the E8 more direct? A short extension of the E2 from Brentford to West Middlesex could be useful too. And finally with the E1, with suggestions to send it to Hounslow, how important is it to serve Osterley, or is that just a convenient place to terminate? I would have thought Hounslow, or even Brentford, would be a more popular destination from here than Ealing Broadway. A more direct alternative to the H28 could be more useful. I think the E1 extension was originally part of the Crossrail consultation, however I expect people living in that area would prefer to just take the Piccadilly or SWR into Central London.
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Post by evergreenadam on Aug 31, 2023 20:08:02 GMT
In many ways I would have preferred if the E1 were extended to Hounslow via the full length of Ealing Road, so that you could then reroute the 235 to West Middlesex Hospital instead of the 117. I am not sure there will be enough demand to justify the high frequency of the E1 extension between Gillette Corner and Ealing Road but we will see. It is probably being subsided by developer contributions from sites along the Great West Road so has to go that way or it wouldn’t happen at all. The North Brentford Quarter bus service is well used and the frequent temporary service curtailments to Brentford County Court whenever there is a problem with the access gate or private road into the North Brentford Quarter, also known as Great West Quarter, is robustly challenged by local councillors. So any removal of the bus service would be politically unacceptable. The problem is more intractable due to the long gap in southbound bus stops on Ealing Road which means the 65 cannot stop at the entrance to the development on Ealing Road which would have been nice. The issue is that the 235, or any other route that could replace it, serves a busy corridor between Brentford and Hounslow, and ideally needs the extra capacity of DDs. So either DDs need to be permitted within the North Brentford Quarter development, or remove the service here and improve bus stop locations on the main road. My suggestion in a previous restructure idea was to have a new route replacing the 235 from Brentford to Hounslow, then onwards to Heathrow Central via Hounslow West to cover a currently missing link. Then the 235 diverted to West Middlesex Hospital, and the 117 cut back to Hounslow. Regarding a possible Ealing-Hounslow link, how well used in the E8 from the Hounslow area to/from Boston Manor and Hanwell? Could you maybe just swap routeings with the E2 to make the E8 more direct? A short extension of the E2 from Brentford to West Middlesex could be useful too. And finally with the E1, with suggestions to send it to Hounslow, how important is it to serve Osterley, or is that just a convenient place to terminate? I would have thought Hounslow, or even Brentford, would be a more popular destination from here than Ealing Broadway. A more direct alternative to the H28 could be more useful. I think the E1 extension was originally part of the Crossrail consultation, however I expect people living in that area would prefer to just take the Piccadilly or SWR into Central London. Some thoughts on the above: The Council investigated the costs of highway works to provide a stand and southbound bus stop on Ealing Road outside Great West Quarter to allow the 235 to serve Ealing Road irrrespective of any disputes with the management company over access to the private road onto the development. It was 300-500k if I recall correctly, which was a non starter. The whole Ealing Road/Great West Road junction is also non compliant with current safety standards and a redesign has been discussed for decades but nobody will pay for it. Out of the 235, 237 and E8 on the London Road corridor it is usually the E8 that is the most lightly loaded, but I don’t travel in peak hours. So I think the E2 and E8 could be swapped to give a faster journey time between Hounslow and Ealing Broadway, at the expense of a direct route from Hounslow to Boston Manor/Hanwell. Extending route 195 to West Middlesex Hospital would be great, providing common stops on Brentford High Street for all buses to and from Hanwell, with easy interchange to the buses on the London Road corridor. The existing County Court stand is only really useful for customers of Morrisons. Also the university halls of residence on Boston Manor Road are currently shut due to building safety issues but were originally meant to have a direct bus service to West Middlesex Hospital where the student nurses are trained. Route E2 serves the Commerce Road area which is being redeveloped for residential flats, so it’s quite important that that area retains a bus service. I expect it operates at too high a frequency to justify a reroute to West Middlesex Hospital which is already served by route 267. If the 235 is rerouted to West Middlesex Hospital it would still need to be operated by single deckers due to the low bridge at St John’s Road. Curtailing the 117 at Hounslow would put quite a bit of pressure on the 235 as the only route from Feltham to West Thames College. There is no way on earth that TfL will use their limited resources on a high frequency bus service between Hounslow and Heathrow Airport which would duplicate the Piccadilly Line. The H28 was to have been rerouted away from Wood Lane to run direct from Osterley to Syon Lane, the two new secondary schools, Gillette Corner and Brentford County Court. But TfL encountered heavy opposition from Councillors as Wood Lane would have lost its bus service and the H28 would no longer have served West Middlesex Hospital. So clearly TfL felt that there was a need for a direct Gillette Corner to Brentford town centre bus service but the problem now is how to provide it without spending too much money and without other residents losing out. The Homebase and Tesco sites are proposed for redevelopment for thousands of flats, but the public inquiry decision has been delayed several times and everyone is waiting on Michael Gove. Thousands of new residents around Gillette Corner would change the dynamics of bus service provision in the area and may justify further enhancements.
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Post by ADH45258 on Sept 1, 2023 12:31:33 GMT
Some thoughts on the above: The Council investigated the costs of highway works to provide a stand and southbound bus stop on Ealing Road outside Great West Quarter to allow the 235 to serve Ealing Road irrrespective of any disputes with the management company over access to the private road onto the development. It was 300-500k if I recall correctly, which was a non starter. The whole Ealing Road/Great West Road junction is also non compliant with current safety standards and a redesign has been discussed for decades but nobody will pay for it. Out of the 235, 237 and E8 on the London Road corridor it is usually the E8 that is the most lightly loaded, but I don’t travel in peak hours. So I think the E2 and E8 could be swapped to give a faster journey time between Hounslow and Ealing Broadway, at the expense of a direct route from Hounslow to Boston Manor/Hanwell. Extending route 195 to West Middlesex Hospital would be great, providing common stops on Brentford High Street for all buses to and from Hanwell, with easy interchange to the buses on the London Road corridor. The existing County Court stand is only really useful for customers of Morrisons. Also the university halls of residence on Boston Manor Road are currently shut due to building safety issues but were originally meant to have a direct bus service to West Middlesex Hospital where the student nurses are trained. Route E2 serves the Commerce Road area which is being redeveloped for residential flats, so it’s quite important that that area retains a bus service. I expect it operates at too high a frequency to justify a reroute to West Middlesex Hospital which is already served by route 267. If the 235 is rerouted to West Middlesex Hospital it would still need to be operated by single deckers due to the low bridge at St John’s Road. Curtailing the 117 at Hounslow would put quite a bit of pressure on the 235 as the only route from Feltham to West Thames College. There is no way on earth that TfL will use their limited resources on a high frequency bus service between Hounslow and Heathrow Airport which would duplicate the Piccadilly Line. The H28 was to have been rerouted away from Wood Lane to run direct from Osterley to Syon Lane, the two new secondary schools, Gillette Corner and Brentford County Court. But TfL encountered heavy opposition from Councillors as Wood Lane would have lost its bus service and the H28 would no longer have served West Middlesex Hospital. So clearly TfL felt that there was a need for a direct Gillette Corner to Brentford town centre bus service but the problem now is how to provide it without spending too much money and without other residents losing out. The Homebase and Tesco sites are proposed for redevelopment for thousands of flats, but the public inquiry decision has been delayed several times and everyone is waiting on Michael Gove. Thousands of new residents around Gillette Corner would change the dynamics of bus service provision in the area and may justify further enhancements. Would having DDs terminate within the North Brentford Quarter development be an option? Is there any physical restriction on DDs being used, or just local objections? Or alternatively you could have the 235 (or replacement route) turn east onto the Great Western Road then terminate wherever stand space can be found. The westbound H91 stop (BB) is close enough to the development for passengers towards Hounslow, with the northbound stop (BT) on Ealing Road available in the other direction. I think the 235 is restricted to SDs regardless of the Brentford end, due to residents objections in Sunbury. The point of sending the 235 to West Middlesex is to provide extra capacity compared to the 117. As you say it may make sense to keep the H28 as it is to serve all local roads. However, particularly if the redevelopments near Osterley Tesco eventually go ahead, it would probably be worth having an additional route to provide a direct Osterley-Hounslow link. The 117 could be ideal for this, and would maintain current capacity between Feltham and Isleworth. Potentially the 117 could also take over a section of the H28 such as Wood Lane, allowing the H28 to go to Brentford? Or a more expensive alternative could be to reroute the 440 from Turnham Green to Osterley via Brentford, which would also introduce new links such as Acton-Brentford. Regarding my suggestion for the Heathrow route, not everywhere near the Bath Road corridor is in walking distance of Hounslow West Station, so would provide that local link which may be useful for airport workers - while also relieving routes like the 111. It wouldn't need to be that high frequency, every 10-12 would be adequate in replacing part of the 235 on the basis of using DDs - and the idea was alongside a frequency reduction on the 222 to about every 15 minutes. The 222 would otherwise stay unchanged to maintain links, but with other new routes operating alongside maintaining capacity. The Uxbridge to West Drayton section would be supported by a new Uxbridge-T5 route (also replacing part of the 350).
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Post by evergreenadam on Sept 1, 2023 19:12:58 GMT
Some thoughts on the above: The Council investigated the costs of highway works to provide a stand and southbound bus stop on Ealing Road outside Great West Quarter to allow the 235 to serve Ealing Road irrrespective of any disputes with the management company over access to the private road onto the development. It was 300-500k if I recall correctly, which was a non starter. The whole Ealing Road/Great West Road junction is also non compliant with current safety standards and a redesign has been discussed for decades but nobody will pay for it. Out of the 235, 237 and E8 on the London Road corridor it is usually the E8 that is the most lightly loaded, but I don’t travel in peak hours. So I think the E2 and E8 could be swapped to give a faster journey time between Hounslow and Ealing Broadway, at the expense of a direct route from Hounslow to Boston Manor/Hanwell. Extending route 195 to West Middlesex Hospital would be great, providing common stops on Brentford High Street for all buses to and from Hanwell, with easy interchange to the buses on the London Road corridor. The existing County Court stand is only really useful for customers of Morrisons. Also the university halls of residence on Boston Manor Road are currently shut due to building safety issues but were originally meant to have a direct bus service to West Middlesex Hospital where the student nurses are trained. Route E2 serves the Commerce Road area which is being redeveloped for residential flats, so it’s quite important that that area retains a bus service. I expect it operates at too high a frequency to justify a reroute to West Middlesex Hospital which is already served by route 267. If the 235 is rerouted to West Middlesex Hospital it would still need to be operated by single deckers due to the low bridge at St John’s Road. Curtailing the 117 at Hounslow would put quite a bit of pressure on the 235 as the only route from Feltham to West Thames College. There is no way on earth that TfL will use their limited resources on a high frequency bus service between Hounslow and Heathrow Airport which would duplicate the Piccadilly Line. The H28 was to have been rerouted away from Wood Lane to run direct from Osterley to Syon Lane, the two new secondary schools, Gillette Corner and Brentford County Court. But TfL encountered heavy opposition from Councillors as Wood Lane would have lost its bus service and the H28 would no longer have served West Middlesex Hospital. So clearly TfL felt that there was a need for a direct Gillette Corner to Brentford town centre bus service but the problem now is how to provide it without spending too much money and without other residents losing out. The Homebase and Tesco sites are proposed for redevelopment for thousands of flats, but the public inquiry decision has been delayed several times and everyone is waiting on Michael Gove. Thousands of new residents around Gillette Corner would change the dynamics of bus service provision in the area and may justify further enhancements. Would having DDs terminate within the North Brentford Quarter development be an option? Is there any physical restriction on DDs being used, or just local objections? Or alternatively you could have the 235 (or replacement route) turn east onto the Great Western Road then terminate wherever stand space can be found. The westbound H91 stop (BB) is close enough to the development for passengers towards Hounslow, with the northbound stop (BT) on Ealing Road available in the other direction. I think the 235 is restricted to SDs regardless of the Brentford end, due to residents objections in Sunbury. The point of sending the 235 to West Middlesex is to provide extra capacity compared to the 117. As you say it may make sense to keep the H28 as it is to serve all local roads. However, particularly if the redevelopments near Osterley Tesco eventually go ahead, it would probably be worth having an additional route to provide a direct Osterley-Hounslow link. The 117 could be ideal for this, and would maintain current capacity between Feltham and Isleworth. Potentially the 117 could also take over a section of the H28 such as Wood Lane, allowing the H28 to go to Brentford? Or a more expensive alternative could be to reroute the 440 from Turnham Green to Osterley via Brentford, which would also introduce new links such as Acton-Brentford. Regarding my suggestion for the Heathrow route, not everywhere near the Bath Road corridor is in walking distance of Hounslow West Station, so would provide that local link which may be useful for airport workers - while also relieving routes like the 111. It wouldn't need to be that high frequency, every 10-12 would be adequate in replacing part of the 235 on the basis of using DDs - and the idea was alongside a frequency reduction on the 222 to about every 15 minutes. The 222 would otherwise stay unchanged to maintain links, but with other new routes operating alongside maintaining capacity. The Uxbridge to West Drayton section would be supported by a new Uxbridge-T5 route (also replacing part of the 350). I understand that double deckers entering the Great Western Quarter is a non starter for the management company and local residents. I don’t know whether there are any physical restrictions on double deckers on the estate as such but as it is a private road, the management company controls any vehicles entering the estate. Unfortunately there are no stands further east along the Great West Road within reasonable distance. Local Councillors have said that the Great West Quarter bus stop is well used by residents from the Clayponds and Green Dragon Lane estates for whom it is the closest bus stop for trips to Brentford and Hounslow. The H91 serves a different market on a very linear corridor into Chiswick and Hammersmith.
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Post by londonbuses on Sept 2, 2023 12:05:00 GMT
I'm guessing the consultation will open sometime this week based on the end date written on the consultation poster.
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Post by southlondonbus on Sept 2, 2023 16:22:36 GMT
I'm guessing the consultation will open sometime this week based on the end date written on the consultation poster. Yes from Monday would be around 6 weeks for the consultation.
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Post by northlondon83 on Sept 2, 2023 16:29:36 GMT
I'm guessing the consultation will open sometime this week based on the end date written on the consultation poster. Yes from Monday would be around 6 weeks for the consultation. I do wonder whether the other Hounslow changes will be consulted on then, maybe in addition to the Richmond changes that some users have been going on about.
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Post by londonbuses on Sept 2, 2023 22:29:07 GMT
Yes from Monday would be around 6 weeks for the consultation. I do wonder whether the other Hounslow changes will be consulted on then, maybe in addition to the Richmond changes that some users have been going on about. I don't think the Richmond changes will be consulted on as they are most likely temporary (even though they probably will go on for years until the development on the Homebase site is completed), and based on what was said on the other thread, they will actually begin next Saturday.
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Post by COBO on Sept 5, 2023 22:14:36 GMT
surprised it ain't open yet.
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Post by londonbuses on Sept 5, 2023 22:23:00 GMT
surprised it ain't open yet. Would be very surprised if it didn't open tomorrow, based on the fact the consultation closing date is Wednesday 18th October, exactly 6 weeks from tomorrow.
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Post by TB123 on Sept 6, 2023 8:43:00 GMT
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Post by southlondonbus on Sept 6, 2023 8:58:00 GMT
Exactly as the poster said. An extension of the E1 as we knew and new 618 per map. No changes to any other services in the area so why Feltham was mentioned God only knows.
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Post by TB123 on Sept 6, 2023 9:31:19 GMT
Exactly as the poster said. An extension of the E1 as we knew and new 618 per map. No changes to any other services in the area so why Feltham was mentioned God only knows. TfL are reviewing all the outer London boroughs, but I believe only going to consultation on where they need to make tweaks. So presumably they are reviewing and working through some ideas for Feltham to fulfil MTS and stakeholder aspirations, eg a Ashford Hospital link and the sort.
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Post by southlondonbus on Sept 6, 2023 9:37:23 GMT
Exactly as the poster said. An extension of the E1 as we knew and new 618 per map. No changes to any other services in the area so why Feltham was mentioned God only knows. TfL are reviewing all the outer London boroughs, but I believe only going to consultation on where they need to make tweaks. So presumably they are reviewing and working through some ideas for Feltham to fulfil MTS and stakeholder aspirations, eg a Ashford Hospital link and the sort. I can't see any opposition so I think it will go ahead.
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Post by TB123 on Sept 6, 2023 9:56:33 GMT
TfL are reviewing all the outer London boroughs, but I believe only going to consultation on where they need to make tweaks. So presumably they are reviewing and working through some ideas for Feltham to fulfil MTS and stakeholder aspirations, eg a Ashford Hospital link and the sort. I can't see any opposition so I think it will go ahead. Same. Third time lucky for a Ealing Bdy-Osterley link. First 112 (what a beast that'd have been with Finchley extension...), then E10 now E1. 7 years from first consultation to possible implementation! I think E1 is the best one of those to extend personally. Allows a frequent decker link that's a manageable structure.
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